Curse

streets101 · Feb 20, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

In the past weeks changes have been made to Heros Ascent. When im playing in groups everyone in my party agrees with me when i say that the new playstyle of Ha has totally been changed because of no apparent reason. I know after the changes you made you assumed that players would be happy with the change, but i think otherwise. This is the same as fixing something that was SIMPLY NOT BROKEN. My perspective on Ha atm is nothing but just a mini-game now. It use to be a serious pvp matter when you had to hold out against 2 teams calling strats on whats comming your way. Now its get double teamed and dont make it past broken tower. The problem here is that if you are well known in the Ha community to be a better team, you usually will be the team to be double teamed. Thus resulting in the fact that it took no skill to win. On the flipside lets say you were playing on the team that was doing the double teaming you would be gaining no skill out of this matter, because you arent doing anything but picking off weakened targets. These problems need to be resolved quickly. The changes to The Hall of Heros are even worse. Running a relic, kill count (i know it was removed for testing), capture points. Seriously this sounds like The Hall of Heros has been changed into nothing but a mini-game like I said in the start. Anet plz fix this. I know players requested 8v8 and thats great but i dont know if you recall when they requested it. Let me refresh your memory. This topic was hinted on when the playstyle of HA was meant to hold the altar. I know some skills were very overpowered at certian hours of the day, but it can easily be altared to fit the needs of 8v8. I feel very strongly about this matter and would appreciate it if you could respond to my post. Other players just leave your feedback and comments plz.

Randomway Ftw · Feb 20, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

I agree with you, but it seems that ANET is too busy patting themselves on the back for the "good" job they did on the changes, and refusing to acknowledge any criticism once again. Just like after the introduction of 6v6.

bigboi26 · Feb 20, 2007, 01:09 AM // 01:09

anet changed it so it is more "newb" friendly but guess what, how did those r12 people start? just because you dont suddenly get in high rank groups doesnt mean you have to cry. they didnt need to change all this and just ruin it

defrule · Feb 20, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Feels like playing those games you get in stalls like throw the ring over a bottle, throw the ball in the basket.

RitualEros · Feb 20, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

I am a HA Noob by most standards. I am not quite R3 yet so it is difficult to get in to well organized and thoughtful teams. It seems with all of these new changes, Randomway is FTW! I used to sit for quite awhile waiting to get into a good group. Now, thats no problem, who needs strats now to get a couple fame at a time? All you need to know how to do is hit a target that someone else weakened and steal the kill. I could care less about the 8v8 or 6v6 debate. The real issue is stated above. Unneccesary changes were made to ensure maximum participation from un-ranked and new players, thereby flushing the fun of the competition down the toilet.

Wilhelm · Feb 20, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

It's far too childish and random for my likings.

RA/TA and guest gvging for me till it's fixed.

Thom · Feb 20, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Whether something is broken or not is a matter of perspective. I am firmly in the camp which thinks that changes are improvements. The strategies required are different and will require an adjustment period. Players will adapt and eventually come to enjoy the new style of play. Its unfortunate that people who perfected a certain type of play now have to relearn things.

When the game started through IWAY dominance, it was fairly easy for players to get experience in fairly mechanical groups. It was harder to differenciate players, so new players had more of a chance to get with a better group. Starting now, without legions of new player and without IWAY it is significantly more difficult to get experience and have fun. I'm not saying that the current solution is optimal, but it is an attempt to address a participation problem. For guild wars pvp to remain healthy it needs to cater to noobs as well as seasoned gamers.

Just remember: the first month of tombs would have seemed incredibly noobish to everyone on this board. The current situation isn't much different.

Drewfense · Feb 20, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Its halls. Gimmicks/games/big spikes/randomness has always defined halls, don't pretend it is some recent development (dshot on ghostly? relic runs?).
If you want more serious pvp, go gvg.

The changes have revitalized tombs. I know a lot of people who have returned to the game due to the new HA and 8v8.

As for getting double teamed on a kill count. That is nothing new. How many times in the old HA have you tried to dethrone the holding team and some IWAY is attacking you the whole time. When factions came out, I remember getting double teamed in halls by two rspikes because they were both in the same alliance. It happens and always will with multi team maps.

streets101 · Feb 20, 2007, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

If you want more serious pvp, go gvg.

This is a halls thread dont post things about gvg thats not what im looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

The changes have revitalized tombs. I know a lot of people who have returned to the game due to the new HA and 8v8.

Do you even play halls? from your remarks seems like you should just stick to gvg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

As for getting double teamed on a kill count. That is nothing new. How many times in the old HA have you tried to dethrone the holding team and some IWAY is attacking you the whole time. When factions came out, I remember getting double teamed in halls by two rspikes because they were both in the same alliance. It happens and always will with multi team maps.

Thats exactly my point holding out against two teams, and having a single objective of capping the altar was fine but having to kill and hold out against two teams is a different story. Your saying having another team on your back while you attempt to take out the holding team. Yes I undetstand that did occur but that was what happened in halls, not like you had to score points too. Technically you could have won halls once you capped the altar, you cant win broken tower if your dead from getting double teamed. Get your facts straight or plz dont post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Whether something is broken or not is a matter of perspective. I am firmly in the camp which thinks that changes are improvements. The strategies required are different and will require an adjustment period. Players will adapt and eventually come to enjoy the new style of play. Its unfortunate that people who perfected a certain type of play now have to relearn things.

Read what i posted plz. I posted that there was no need of a change not that players couldnt adapt to it. I see no reason for the change seeing how everything was fine the way it was.

baaba · Feb 20, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by defrule

Feels like playing those games you get in stalls like throw the ring over a bottle, throw the ball in the basket.

LOL! I actually think like that when I was insiding HoH.

We were running around like monkeys either running the stupid relics to the center or capturing stupid points (Alliance Battle style. WT#).

Thom · Feb 20, 2007, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by streets101

Read what i posted plz. I posted that there was no need of a change not that players couldnt adapt to it. I see no reason for the change seeing how everything was fine the way it was.

My second paragraph (the one you didn't quote) addressed why a change was needed. Other players were posting about how noob the new rules were (read: these players now suck at guild wars). Realize that the fact that you don't see the need for a change doesn't mean that other players and developers were happy with HA.

Ironically, you quote the section that states this fact: "Whether something is broken is a matter of perspective." From your perspective things were just fine. From my perspective (and clearly perspective of ANET), Tombs needed to be structured. I provided you with one reason: Tombs is increasingly inaccessable to inexperienced player and this caused steady declines in total participation. A second reason has to do with balance: it was very difficult to balance for tombs under the old victory conditions. Making some of the mechanics more like GvG allows balance for both game types to coexist. Before there were "Tombs skills" which were unplayable in GvG and "GvG skills" which were unplayable in tombs. In theory, the new tombs game type will allow more skills to be viable accross both types due to size (GvG is rarely 8v8), movement ablity/requirements and NPC reliance.

Bread Fan · Feb 20, 2007, 10:51 AM // 10:51

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0114495&page=2

Death_From_Above · Feb 20, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

8v8 wasnt broken, anet tried fix it, result "ill be telling all my friends who i told oh buy guild wars cos when uv finished pve storyline you can HA for life and never get board" i take that back an ill be telling the many of my friends who for this reason i convinced to play gw to go get a refund. i like the issues raised here concerining new HA, they are all valid except for the ones supporting change. One thing i must disagree with how ever is adaption. I loved HA and had been playing it 1 month after guildwars props first came out, yes the game kept me intrested since then (WELL HA did). so when these changes came about liek 6v6 ect. sure i was annoyed by because of my passion for tombs i gave it a try. Didnt work. GAVE ANOTHER TRY. Didnt work. Kept trying for 6 months didnt work. Didnt enjoy going in with good pro player friends of mine from HA when it was good and getting rolled by rampage as 1 rangers. But i gave it another shot. Im more of the balanced build guy and recently i havent stood a chance. I play HA for fun not just for fame, ye sure i could run a gimmick or an over powered build but the actual satisfaction of beating your team comes from knowing it wasnt just your build, But you good leadership tatics and play from your team. Hence after trying to adapt whiles being bullied by anet to run a lame build or go full spike. 6 Months down the line i had enough and decided to go play call of duty with many of my other friends who quit and said they wont be returning because of these lame changes. So point in saying this all, yes anet messed with something which wasnt broken, if low ranked players were having trouble finding groups and playing. Why is it then they still played HA in abundance? I saw many rank 0s rank 3s rank 2s rank 1s with old HA. We all started at rank 0 and worked our way up. All it says is the little whiners who cant be botherd to be pacient and dedicate themselves to mastering HA so they can compete at a high level. Have managed to persuade anet that they should get a free ride rather than going through the systimatic training. Soon were going to have a bunch of HA players who know how to play nothing but wamos

Patccmoi · Feb 20, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death_From_Above

i like the issues raised here concerining new HA, they are all valid except for the ones supporting change

Lol, that just made me laugh. Someone isn't biased...

Personally i think that Thom raises many good points. Ofc a system might not seem broken to those who like it and are so used to it, but it might be so for the rest of the player base and i'm not just talking about 'PvE newbs'. I didn't like holding HA, i didn't have any kind of fun in it. And it's not cause i was horrible or never won HoH. I did, i got to 40 fame wins, but most of the time i was bored, hated the meta with extremely defensive builds and just as much IWAY/Vimway/BSpike as there is now Rt Spikes or Sin-Eles teams. Ofc if YOU liked the meta and holding, you didn't see anything wrong with it, but a lot of people didn't too.

And that argument of 'we all started low rank' is extremely biased too because it DOES completely ignore the current state of HA (and the state it was in before the changes) where there is a lot less low rank people competing now than when just every HAer was low ranked, and the reduction of the total amount of players leaving mostly HA guilds or high ranked players made the competition harder. When you nearly never fight in the first maps and just skip constantly to fight good groups and you have no experience, it's just disheartening, especially with PuGs being so prone to just blame random people and disband after a loss. Yes, patient and perseverant people can still manage to get in HA and gain rank, etc. but honestly it requires a lot more patience and dedication than it did a year ago. And btw, while not a big HAer cause i disliked it, i'm not part of those so low ranked players that never managed to get in a group so i'm not saying that to whine cause personally i can't HA, i actually can and overall like it more since the changes (i don't think they're perfect or that kill count is the greatest idea in the world, but i like HA more as a whole now than before).

And i also don't buy the 'ANet should just please those that liked HA before' cause this is stupid. If the HA population was on a decline (it seemed to me that it was before any change to 6v6, and ANet claimed that it was and i don't think they'd lie or invest so much time to try to change HA if it wasn't the case), then keeping it like this just for those that liked it is a bad idea. Cause like it or not, the player base of a game change over time, and if there's less and less HAers and they don't change it, once the current HAers that liked HA are gone, than HA is just barren with nobody left in there (ofc it would never be 'nobody', but it can be a very low amount of people). And GvG being less accessible, especially for new players, it just leaves no real high level PvP for new players to get into.

Horace The Great · Feb 20, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Anet made HA 6v6 because of the 6v6 dubble fame weekend (which was a succes), which ofcourse is bullshit, it was a succes because it was dubble fame.

Changes were needed to kill IWAY? well, some teams indeed had problems with defeating it, so?
You just change some skills...OR...let's change all of HA because of IWAY?
I think it's much easier to change a few skills, isnt it?
And by this way you probaly only hurt that build, and not all the builds.

One more thing, killcount is really stupid and it should be removed, like this people are forced to play spikes, what kinda sucks.

All I want is HA back as it used to be, back to hold the altar.
So if there are some skilles easy to play overpowered builds? You can just change some skills instead of changing all of HA.

Orphan Anthem · Feb 21, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

HA is a joke just accept the fact and start playing GvG

IMO

Randomway Ftw · Feb 21, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan Anthem

HA is a joke just accept the fact and start playing GvG

IMO

You are correct now, however that wasn't always the case IMO.

Skuld · Feb 21, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Halls is somewhere to go when there isn't enough people to GvG, and that sucks.

Vital · Feb 21, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

...and Guild Wars is a game you play while waiting for Unleash The Fury and Halo 3 to come out!

Priest Of Sin · Feb 21, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

When I ran into the 3 team maps, we let the holders and the other team fight it out. We then mopped up the stragglers. Nobody else does that, I guess.